2 ton+ grass with a haybine

[BDE]

Hey guys,

This is my second season haying. Currently running older equipment but i make it work. I am in the pacific northwest.

Have a particular question about how hay is pulled or run threw rollers on a haybine conditioner.

Ill explain backstory for info first. Running a MF 255 50hp tractor with a NH 492 swather. I seeded a heavy crop of 4 varities of grass, 30% Orchard grass, 30% fescue, 25% Brome, 15% Timothy. Very tight seeding, grows well, but thick and tight not much airflow. I Irrigate with a pivot in the okanagan a hot dry desert like climate most of the summer with rich soil. I can hammer down 1" of water every 2 days and because I can I do.My crops end up being average 2+ ton for all three cuts with first being the heaviest.

When it comes to cutting doesnt matter how long i left the water off 7 day - 10 days, the stems are so thick that the bottom 4-12 inches never totally dries out, always remaining a bit moist. wind cant penetrate and the sun does not get threw. My Soil is dry.

All cuts do the following but especially bad on this one leading to third cut here now the ole 492 is struggling to clean material threw it once it cuts, being September shorter days and not as hot with 100% humidity nightly lots of dew. Cuts well although my cutterbar does need attention. What happens is the wet lower sections lays on the flat face below the rollers and then the material starts building up there. Eventually it gets rolling around into a ball and bangs super loudly threw my rollers, sometimes getting so bad that the mower starts to shake the tractor where i stop pick up then it clears threw the rollers with an aggressive banging.

I read the NH 492 manual and my crop being 3 feet+ long when i cut it is bent over halfway, kind of tangled from the wind the suggestion is move the tine reel forward and down. I lowered the reel as much as possible and moved it forwards. Im forward about 80% on the reel tine and that is just barely clearing the knife gaurds and have no spacers under the reel tine mount anymore (had 4 previously).

Its a bit better with this setting but still clumping up. I would have thought closer to the angled edge leading up to the rollers would be better to clean grass off of it. but i dont have the experience

I run the tractor at full pto speed if not better and im in Low 1 clutching frequently to slow down which is 1.4 MPH or slower with clutch.

The agressive banging on the rolls im not sure why it is so bad as i have the rubber spacers on both sides still. I dont know how to add more, like get pressure off the spacer from the roller tension bracket to add or remove more spacers. manual doesnt get into this. I also dont know how to tighten up the rollers to make them closer together as all i have is the rubber spacer and thats it.

I do have some gap in between the rolls i would say close to 1/4" and my lower driveshaft is pretty worn allowing the roller to have play and hit the upper roller which its driveshaft has a tiny bit of play in the square drive but not nearly as much as the lower with the hex drive.

Any advise for guys who have running haybines in thick grass?
Will tightening my roll gap and having them in time better (ie no play in the driveshafts) allow the material to flow threw better?

My rolls are in decent shape for how old the machine is not chunking a bit of cracking but not major and rubber is not deteriorating yet. the corners of the rubber crimpers are a bit rounded.

I picked up a MF 275 tractor last week with 67 PTO HP but it will need some TLC this winter before i can use it. I was thinking of trying to get a 9' discbine with conditioner rolls i think hesston and case make a 9' with 65hp minimum rating. I know this would not be ideal but if i can go 3mph instead of 1mph that will be a win in my books.

The struggle is i can get the grass down with the 492 it takes a long time but it gets down. Once its down every 20 feet i have a super large pile. Now when it comes to drying this pile never totally dries out doesnt matter how many times i rake it. When i hit it with the rake or turner the pile almost balls up and becomes bigger not rolling off the rake nicely its so big. If i wait until the balls are dry 7+ days ill lose way to much moisture and tonnage from the rest of the windrows.

Then i get wet green flakes in my small squares. trying to eliminate that.

Thanks for any help and experience, i didnt grow up farming and trying to get into it and want to put up premium feed. But have no experience to help me.

 

[Roger in Iowa]

1. The cutterbar has to be like new for your hay conditions! Everything sharp and
well adjusted.

2. The reel should be back as close to the deck where hay is laying and close to
the rollers to keep the cut material moving! If it stops it causes clumps.

3. Does a neighbor have a disc machine that he would try in your conditions. Then
you would know the answer.

4. To get hay to dry, you will have to use a tedder to move the hay from a windrow
to dry. Raking is not the answer as you crop is too HEAVY.

 

[DanielW]

The balling up you're seeing is pretty common if the reel isn't adjusted right. Roger's point #2 below is the key. Sounds like the reel needs to be dropped and moved back. Disc units sure are nicer to run, go through anything, and don't plug the cutterbar, but it sounds like the cutterbar
isn't so much the concern with yours. It sounds like the reel isn't pulling/moving material.

If you can afford a decent disc unit it may help, but the crimping isn't any better on a disc vs. sickle machine. Crimping also isn't nearly as effective on grasses as it is on legumes. Tedding gives you far more bang for your buck on grass hay.

This is just a guess, but I think you'd be further ahead to play with your reel position to pull it through better and buy a tedder instead of the disc machine. The tedder will cost less than a disc machine and do a lot more for drying.

 

[Roger in Iowa]

A disc cutting machine with FLAIL or TINE conditioners work well in grasses. No
rolls to plug and they scrape the grass stems to allow moisture to depart. They
also work in legumes and you can control the speed and or hood over the flails to
determine how much conditioning you need or want. Deere has built such machines for
a long time and may be some used for sale in your area.
Yes, I worked for Deere.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Flail conditioners take a LOT of HP. A 65HP Massey won't make you happy on a 9' machine. My next door neighbor has a Deere 925 and he tried running it with his IH 756 diesel. He had to be way down in the low range gears to run it. Didn't take long for him to switch over to his AC 190XT. Now he runs it with a 1486. Probably overkill, but... cab with AC, ya know?

 

[caterpillar guy]

I always lay hay out in a swath even with grass or legume hay. IT will dry faster in a thinner layer than in a windrow. It sounds like you need to look at both knife and reel adjustment. I would try reel set back close to the rolls as possible so the material is not setting in front of the rolls. They also should be tight together when lowered for cutting. If not they will not tend to not pull the material into them as well either. If your stubble looks a bit ragged the knife is dull or guards are worn. Usually they will not cut good long before the stubble will get ragged looking though. Hold downs want to be tight to the knife sections so as to keep the sections tight down to the guards. This does not mean so tight you can not move it by hand in the machine. Reel adjustment will be more or lees a trial and error system on your part and you may even need to cut a bit sooner for each cutting to help with less wet course material going through.

 

[showcrop]

I agree with Roger and Dan. You need to move the reel back again. You didn't say what you are using for guards. Under your conditions you need to use stub guards. You can't dry heavy hay like that with a rake. YOU NEED A TEDDER. A swather is self propelled. Your 492 is a haybine. Yes a discbine will speed you up dramatically but they take POWER. Most of all YOU NEED A TEDDER.

 

[Destroked 450]

Can t help with the haybine as I have never owned one
A tedder will tear apart the clumps, scatter out the hay and fluff in up off the ground for better drying

In the upper right of the photo below you can see the windrows my drum mower made, upper left shows the scattered hay after tedding

We normally get plenty of rain in the spring, with the proper mix of potash and chicken litter we will easily average 2.5-3+ tons per acre in fescue, orchard grass and clover

This post was edited by Destroked 450 on 09/08/2023 at 08:59 pm.

 

[Destroked 450]

Can t help with the hay one as I have never owned one
A tedder will tear apart the clumps, scatter out the hay and fluff in up off the ground for better drying

In the upper right of the photo below you can see the windrows my drum mower made, upper left shows the scattered hay after tedding

We normally get plenty of rain in the spring, with the proper mix of potash and chicken litter we will easily average 2.5-3+ tons per acre in fescue, orchard grass and clover

 

[Matt in Oz]

Use a 492 in irrigated lucerne, not your problem but had it not cutting well in heavy crop. Talked to a NH rep he suggested speeding up the reel a little, made the world of difference. Don't let your conditioning rollers run together, close but definitely not touching. If you could take the slop out of
the drive that would help. Had to drill a hole and put a bolt through one of the drive yokes to take the wobble out of mine. Have you adjusted the pressure on the conditioning rollers? Easy to do with lucerne as a break about every foot on the stem does the job. I do cut some more mature grass
with mine occasionally. Did try to cut barley straw with dew on it one morning that did not go well, once the dew lifted much better. Don't envy, you try one adjustment at a time and see what helps.

 

[showcrop]

Another potential major factor in drying very heavy hay is driving over it and pressing it down into the ground with your tires. Here in the northeast where are ground is often high in moisture during haying everyone mows into a narrow swath, then we ted it out. This allows te ground to dry for a few hours, but it reduces the thick pressed together green bunches. Some guys ted right behind the mower, some leave it a day. I go after 4-5 hours. Even though your ground is dry, this could help a lot with the dense stuff down near the ground.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Your reel should also be bringing your hay right up to the rolls not bringing it on around over the top but up to the rolls. If not there should be an adjustment of the cam track so the reel teeth angle out slightly more to do that. it will be a close difference between bringing the hay on around over the top and just bringing it to the rolls. Only maybe a degree or 2 to accomplish that.

 

[495man]

If it was me the haybine would be in the fence row and a discmower would be on the tractor.

This stuff was 3-4 feet high and thick. Mowed @ 8 MPH one evening, tedded out next morning. 3+ ton an acre as conservative estimate.

Straight disc mower and tedder dries hay far faster than conditioner unit alone in my opinion.

 

[Texasmark]

I don't have a background in any of the equipment listed in this post but I do use a tedder. Absolutely will not be without one unless
it's 4th of July, hasn't rained for a month and no rain in the forecast for the upcoming month. Under any other condition if you want
dry hay, run your MOCO, (or your disc or drum mower without crimping function) make your WWs even if you are in irregular shaped
fields like mine, come back with your tedder, scatter it all out, come back in half the time you expected......or less, and rake and bale
your dry hay!

One advantage of the tedder, operated at PTO speed is that the tynes whack the product (stems in particular) in numerous places
as it discharges the product, providing numerous exit points for moisture release.....may take 2 trips if time is short but helps
significantly in the drying process.....besides eliminating clumps that won't dry and getting all of the product up, off the ground and
onto the stubble.

 

[jaoneill]

(quoted from post at 15:00:41 09/08/23) Hey guys,

This is my second season haying. Currently running older equipment but i make it work. I am in the pacific northwest.

Thanks for any help and experience, i didnt grow up farming and trying to get into it and want to put up premium feed. But have no experience to help me.

I wouldn't disagree with either of the solutions mentioned; reel adjustment or tedder although the latter works extremely well. However, had you given any thought to taking 4 cuttings rather than 3? Why stress the equipment and your time creeping around the field, simply cut it before it reaches the hardwood forest stage.

Jim

 

[BDE]

Hey guys thanks for all the tips. Here is an example of the field I m mowing probably about 3 feet long bent over at about 1.5-2feet

This is as good a picture I could take of a clump that came out of the haybine

Here you can see material build up on my guards this could be one of the leading causes to the clumping issues. What do you guys think?

I do have the worlds biggest Tedder. Although she ain t pretty and some of the arms are from the wrong side it still somewhat works. Got it all laid down yesterday I ll Ted it out today and let it sit for a few days before raking it back up. To get rid of the big clumps I was just going to keep hitting them with the Tedder until they break up

I agree with 495man though. I should probably stop wasting my time and money trying to make the haybine work and just step up to a discbine



This post was edited by BDE on 09/10/2023 at 10:24 am.

 

[Jim.ME]

If you aren't already, I suggest you start looking for a good 4 spinner tedder with 6 arms per spinner. Cover more ground at the same or a bit better ground speed, it will pay for itself in time and fuel savings plus likely break the clumps up better for quicker drying. Hydraulic fold-up is nice if you have to change locations. We run a MoCo with the impeller flails. If the ground is wet make a narrow discharge windrow, let the ground dry some then blow the windrows open with the tedder.

 

[495man]

I agree with 495man though. I should probably stop wasting my time and money trying to make the haybine work and just step up to a discbine



This post was edited by BDE on 09/10/2023 at 10:24 am.

Just go 3pt disc mower. My little 5 disc unit is good for mowing 4 acre an hour in my little odd shape fields. Take less power than a discbine too.

 

[lastcowboy32]

There are a lot of lessons that we've learned that apply to this question.

We run old Hesston haybines, and I've been mowing at 5mph all summer in light, heavy, short, tall...whatever. It's been a wet summer (13" of rain in August), so without irrigation, we still see similar problems to what you see.

So... here goes:

(by the way, if you want to go to a discbine or drum mower, and have the money, I'm all for it... we have no budget for new equipment, so we've learned how to make these haybines work)

I have three statements:

Adjusting a haybine is a lost art.

Stub guards are your friend.

Tedding once at the right time is more efficient than tedding multiple times.

So... adjusting...

Push bar and reel...

The goal is to get the grass tops pushed away from the cutterbar (that's why you have a push bar on the front), to expose the stems to the cutterbar. Your push bar should be set to about 2/3 of the height of what you are mowing.

Once cut, the reel is supposed to put the hay through the rolls with the cut stem first. And the reel, ideally engages the hay after it's cut, not before.

So... with thick stuff, adjust your push bar down to push the tops away... adjust your reel, so the teeth bottom out close to, but not touching the cutterbar or guards just where the "V" ends between the sections.. to avoid having it grab onto the hay before it's cut as much as possible.

Sections/Guards:

If you have thin-stemmed grass, you are supposed to use smooth sections, no serrations. The thin stems gather in the serrations and cause the crud gathering on the cutterbar/guards that your pictures show.

In thick, wet, tangled stuff, we run stub guards. If you keep the guards fresh (replace when the edges round) and keep the sections fresh (replace when dull)... You'll cut with as good or better stubble than with full guards. You're running on irrigated ground... my guess is you've picked rocks... there is no need to have full guards. The slot in a full guard is a perfect place for that wet crud to gather that your pictures show. Just eliminate it.

We have two haybines, same brand and model. One has stubs. One has full. Both sets of guards and sections are fresh. The stubs just flat out beat the pants off the full guards for both cutting ease and quality.

Ground speed/Reel Speed

I used to slow down when I saw the reel struggle. Nowadays, I'm more apt to maintain speed or even speed up. Why? See the explanation above about how the reel isn't supposed to be pulling on grass that hasn't been cut yet. If you slow down...especially if your push bar is too high... your reel is wasting all of its power beating on grass that hasn't been cut.

It's funny to watch the reel work easier and get less plugging when I speed up.

I've learned over the years to watch the tips of the reel teeth relative to the grass passing under. Ideally, you don't want to see the reel beating on the tops of the grass, you want to see it passing under and only engaged to get pushed up the apron.

Our haybines have different drive gears you can buy for the reel.

I run with the "speed up" gear... which seems to match a ground speed of around 4-6mph. Going slower doesn't help. Going faster doesn't help either.

Tedding:

In wet years, on wet ground, we mow everything into a windrow (yes... a windrow)... why? Because we want dry ground to lay the tedded hay on. It also ensures that we don't drive on any mowed hay to trample it down into the stubble. We will often mow the outside and headlands of a few fields in one mow... bale them off... and then do the insides next time that way, we aren't trampling the hay on the headlands into oblivion.

Anyway...we leave the hay in the windrow until it gets crispy on top... and the ground between the windrows is dry. Late in the season, like now... this might be two days. We then go out and tedd it really well...once...slow enough to get all of the clumps knocked out of it, if there are any. And... guess what? The clumps break up a little easier if they have dried out a little in the windrow. We have found that this single tedding after a long sit works, because the hay is being tedded out onto dry ground, so there is no moisture to trap underneath...the crispy dry hay on top acts as a moisture wick when you mix it with the other stuff... and the hay has dried enough to fluff up nicely... if you tedd wet hay, the clumps stay as clumps...it doesn't fluff... and if you haven't let the ground dry... you're just tedding it onto wet stubble...it's a recipe for mold.

We go out and rake when the tedded stuff has dried... and bale immediately after raking.

Raking is only to put the hay through the baler.

This post was edited by lastcowboy32 on 09/20/2023 at 11:03 am.

 

[lastcowboy32]

We run a 7' Grimm tedder and a newer sitrex 10'.. so we know what it's like to have a small tedder.

That's also why we advocate tedding once...when the time is right.

Tedding, in and of itself, doesn't dry the hay. It's sun and air that do the drying. My opinion and experience is that it won't help you much to buy a tedder twice as wide so that you can tedd twice...

Our other experience, as buyers of equipment is...nobody wants small tedders...I can buy a good, two star tedder for 1500 bucks all day every day. The little Grimm cost us about 300 bucks, because absolutely nobody wants it.

But..a good four star recently went for 8200 dollars at auction... and old four stars that you can buy for less, often have problems with the couplings where the folding sections meet (that's why they are being sold)...plus they have all sorts of folding mechanisms, etc, etc.

For us, producing 6,000 to 10,000 small squares a year, with smaller tractors... we can justify the cost of our Ford 2n and a Grimm tedder... as costing less than a third of an 8200 dollar four star tedder. (a tractor and one row tedder costs a third of a two row tedder...) yeah, yeah... that 8200 dollar tedder is shiny, but that's a lot to spend for paint.