ford 3500 engine noise

[Btzj02]

Interesting looking pistons. Do all the Ford three cylinder engines look that way? Tim D, any info you can share?

 

[Sean in PA]

I know 4/1/68 was the changeover date but I guess they continued installing the older components until you used up the inventory
I had a 4/15/68 4000 gas with older vent hood sheet metal and 192 engine and a June 68 4000 gas with newer sheet metal and 192 gas engine
Still have both blocks

All 1965-1975 3xxx series gas engines were 158 ci displacement according to my references.

 

[Destroked 450]

Interesting looking pistons. Do all the Ford three cylinder engines look that way? Tim D, any info you can share?

Gas engines have a large bowl in the pistons to lower compression, the heads are flat like a diesel head, no combustion chambers

 

[Btzj02]

Gas engines have a large bowl in the pistons to lower compression, the heads are flat like a diesel head, no combustion chambers

Thanks for the info. Surely not the same as the 960 four cylinder!

 

[Keith Williams]

Thanks for the info. Surely not the same as the 960 four cylinder!

My feelings are that the early engines were designed to use gas and adapted to use diesel.
The engines brought out in 1965 were designed to run on diesel and that design was adapted to burn gas.
Just my feelings.
Keith

 

[Destroked 450]

Thanks for the info. Surely not the same as the 960 four cylinder!

Completely different engines

 

[Destroked 450]

My feelings are that the early engines were designed to use gas and adapted to use diesel.
The engines brought out in 1965 were designed to run on diesel and that design was adapted to burn gas.
Just my feelings.
Keith

You have it right, pre 65 diesels were modified gas engines using the 3 main bearing design, crankshaft breakage was a known issue on those early diesels
Oddly I recently worked on a 990 David Brown diesel that also has 3 main bearings in a 4 cylinder engine, never heard of crank issues on those tractors
65/later engines were heavy duty diesel designs modified to gas use
3 cylinders have 4 mains and 4 cylinders have 5

 

[maxims45]

The bottom is down! Cylinder 1 piston bearing cap has play for sure. No metal, no metal parts in the pan though. The manual calls to remove the ridge before taking the piston out. If not reusing - do I need to do that? Going to take the piston out and post the crankshaft pictures, liner, thanks for navigating, guys!

 

[Destroked 450]

If the ridge is sharp were you can catch a finger nail on at the rings will most likely hang up and not let the piston slide out

 

[maxims45]

Alright! The cylinder 1 bearing was not where it was supposed to be; it turned a quarter turn. Tabs are broken, bearings fell out from both the lower and upper sections.

The bottom of the camshaft is shown in pictures 1-2, while the top is in picture 3. The cap, rod, and the two bearings follow.

Any advice? Can the camshaft be salvaged by polishing it in place, or does it need to go to the machine shop? The micrometer did not register much of a difference within millimeters. I am still hoping for the inframe rebuild.

For the pistons/cylinders, I am going to measure the cylinder walls to check if they are within the specs.

Also, a question: Is the Lisle ridge reamer blade too short? It doesn't appear to cut wide enough to remove the entire ridge! I now have a second ridge; both form a 1/8th-inch "belt." Destroked, you were right—I had to finagle the piston out as it was catching on the ridge.

Thank you in advance for the replies. This is my first time at this level. What else should I be checking or might be missing? Thanks, guys!

 

[Destroked 450]

The crank has too much scarring and will need to be turned at lease .010 undersized
A shop may be able to recondition the rod, if it has to be replaced a 68/earlier gas rod is needed, in mid 68 with the 201 gas engine they switched to the heavier diesel rods
The rings are way down on those gas engines and most common ridge reamers don’t go that low
Sorry that’s something I had forgotten
Looking at the photo it looks like a bit of wear in the cylinders, may need a .020 over bore

 

[maxims45]

Got it, thank you!

Lisle doesn't say anywhere how low it cuts so no way to know either way!

So you thinking bring both the bottom and the crank to a shop and machine it the best course of action?

 

[Destroked 450]

Crank will definitely need to be reworked which requires removing the engine
Used engine may be cheaper if you can find a good one

 

[Hobo,NC]

Got it, thank you!

Lisle doesn't say anywhere how low it cuts so no way to know either way!

So you thinking bring both the bottom and the crank to a shop and machine it the best course of action?

Yes, along with the cylinder head and associated parts. Its due for a complete rebuild.

 

[Eman85]

Are you keeping this tractor? Be prepared for some serious sticker shock if you are going all in for a rebuild. No doubt all of the engine has wear.

 

[maxims45]

Yep! Keeping. It was priced well I think to begin with so I knew it would need some work to get it back.

Thanks guys! The engine is short of cherry picker about to go to a shop. Will keep updating the thread!

 

[maxims45]

Hi! a quick update and a question. The crank was not salvageable. Cylinders cleaned nicely to 030. Can't wait and ready to assemble! Well sort of.

Machine shop is great, they are trying to get the parts. Utradog MN - thank you for guiding me through options, machine shop was a bit quick and ordered parts before the contact called.

Here is the question: I have F0NN6300PA 3.8 stroke which is dead and every place appears to have F0NN6300PA 3.8 stroke on back order for months. No available. The shop got F0NN6300NA which is 4.2 stroke and they accidentally ordered 030 diesel pistons. Would someone have a PN or a link to 030 gas piston to match F0NN6300NA? Not from UK for $200 a piece? Thank you for looking into this or other combination ideas!

 

[maxims45]

Hi! Thought I would report back! The engine is back in and the first run is a success! No noise, no knocks, smooth and quiet.

Thanks to everyone who navigated above!

3.8 to 4.2 crankshaft with 0.03 oversized pistons is the summary.