Bad voltage regulator

[Dorfi2]

Hate to jump in here but also have volt regulater problems HAVE HAD IT TO 2 SHOPS THAT HOOKED UP GENNY TO VR AND FIRST SHOP COULD NOT GET IT TIO WORK AND SECIOND GOT IT TO WORK WITH ANOTHER NEW VR BUT WHEN ON TRACTOR WOULD NOT WORK...sOMEONE SUGGESTED A TAP WITH A SCREWDRIVER HANDLE AND LO AND BEHOLD IT WORKS BUT QUITE OFTEN CUTS OUT AND IF I TAP THE VR WITH MY HAND IT TAKES OFF AGAIN..aT WITS END WHAT TO DO AS SHOP TELLS ME HE WILL ORDER ANOTHER BUT IT WILL PROBABLY BE THE SAME...gOING TO ASK FOR MONEY BACK AS HE CHARGED ME A BUNDLE FOR THIS..aNY IDEAS AS TO WHAT I COULD DO..wHERE CAN I BUY A QUALITY VC..tHIS IS A TYPE A VCWE ARE SPEAKING OF...THANKS

 

[Dwd14329]

(quoted from post at 18:01:12 12/10/23) Hate to jump in here but also have volt regulater problems HAVE HAD IT TO 2 SHOPS THAT HOOKED UP GENNY TO VR AND FIRST SHOP COULD NOT GET IT TIO WORK AND SECIOND GOT IT TO WORK WITH ANOTHER NEW VR BUT WHEN ON TRACTOR WOULD NOT WORK...sOMEONE SUGGESTED A TAP WITH A SCREWDRIVER HANDLE AND LO AND BEHOLD IT WORKS BUT QUITE OFTEN CUTS OUT AND IF I TAP THE VR WITH MY HAND IT TAKES OFF AGAIN..aT WITS END WHAT TO DO AS SHOP TELLS ME HE WILL ORDER ANOTHER BUT IT WILL PROBABLY BE THE SAME...gOING TO ASK FOR MONEY BACK AS HE CHARGED ME A BUNDLE FOR THIS..aNY IDEAS AS TO WHAT I COULD DO..wHERE CAN I BUY A QUALITY VC..tHIS IS A TYPE A VCWE ARE SPEAKING OF...THANKS

6v or 12v conversion if you don't mind me asking? Did your tractor start puttering after it ran for a couple minutes then return to normal and continue the same cycle? Driving me nuts! Makes you think it's fuel issue. I think my voltage regulator is internal in my altenator. Still haven't figured that out yet. I can't physically locate a voltage regulator on my 2N.

 

[Dwd14329]

(quoted from post at 11:15:13 12/10/23)

(quoted from post at 05:13:10 12/10/23)
That helps, thank you, used red MN. My miss information came from Google. It would make sense if I had a computerized ignition system that voltage might have an effect on coils but not in this case. I have a 12v system but may have to replace the altenator before it gets too bad. I've always read at least a little over 13v on the battery after starting any vehicle with a charging system. My concern is the voltage I'm getting at the battery after starting is only 12v, no higher! And it makes sense that 12 volts would not have an effect on firing. I'm not sure if you read previous posts but I took the advice of tips given and drained fuel tank and replaced with non tanted fuel. Maybe this old tractor didn't like the seafoam. Who knows?? It seams to be firing smoother but now I have an inconsistent idle. Wants to ramp up and down consistently as if searching for the correct idle speed. I don't know if the governor would have anything to do with idle but when I speed up the rpms it runs smooth. Any ideas?

Is this a single wire alternator? Did you check voltage after revving engine? Many 12v conversions with a single wire alternator need the alternator to reach a certain RPM before they get excited to charge.

It appears to have one connection with 2 wires splitting off the one connection,

This post was edited by Dwd14329 on 12/11/2023 at 04:40 am.

 

[Dwd14329]

(quoted from post at 08:35:00 12/10/23) If you have one, try switching out the ignition coil. Sounds like it is firing intermittently when it warms

That's exactly what it's doing...misfiring after it warms up. Are you referring to the coil mounted on top of the distributer? I have a front mount distributer. I can't locate a voltage regulator so I'm assuming my altenator has an internal VR. ??

 

[Eman85]

Is this a single wire alternator? Did you check voltage after revving engine? Many 12v conversions with a single wire alternator need the alternator to reach a certain RPM before they get excited to charge.[/quote]
If the only place any wires connect to the alternator are at 1 stud on the back of the alternator retained by a nut then it is a 1 wire style alternator conversion with an internal self exciting regulator built in.
Did you measure voltage and then rev the engine to see if voltage increased once the regulator was excited?

 

[Jim L WA]

Do you have a battery charger, not a maintainer or trickle charger that you could put on and see if it will keep running. That will answer your question of low voltage causing the misfire.

 

[Dwd14329]

(quoted from post at 08:58:35 12/11/23) Is this a single wire alternator? Did you check voltage after revving engine? Many 12v conversions with a single wire alternator need the alternator to reach a certain RPM before they get excited to charge.

It appears to have one connection with 2 wires splitting off the one connection,

This post was edited by Dwd14329 on 12/11/2023 at 04:40 am.
[/quote]

I will check voltage after revving engine. Thanks for the altenator explanation.

 

[Dwd14329]

New development that I need some advice. I just learned my started solenoid is bad. Of course I have to replace it but can somebody explain if that can be my intermittent firing issue after the tractor warms up a couple minutes. I'm trying to understand wiring theory. The solenoid is wired in series between the starter and battery. Is the solenoid normally live voltage all time, after tractor starts? My thinking is, if I have a bad internal connection within the solenoid, and it is live all the time, its possible my missifiring is caused by the solenoid. I realize the starter disengages but not sure about the solenoid. Any advice?

 

[Eman85]

A lot about the solenoid might depend on if the wiring is original configuration or if during the 12v conversion modifications took place. The solenoid should have power and really shouldn't be your problem if the tractor turns over OK.
Did you get the spark tester and test spark? Did you hook up a voltmeter and test voltage?

This post was edited by Eman85 on 12/12/2023 at 09:32 am.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 13:29:50 12/12/23) A lot about the solenoid might depend on if the wiring is original configuration or if during the 12v conversion modifications took place. The solenoid should have power and really shouldn't be your problem if the tractor turns over OK.
Did you get the spark tester and test spark? Did you hook up a voltmeter and test voltage?

This post was edited by Eman85 on 12/12/2023 at 09:32 am.

do wonder how the solenoid was diagnosed as bad?

 

[Factotum]

Yes the ignition coil, I have had the same problem with an old Pontiac that had a failing ignition coil. It took a while to find it, with lots of hair pulling. I think you should thoroughly check the ignition system. Take your time, use a multimeter, double check everything. The charging system shouldn't have an effect on the ignition, unless (as posted) the voltage is so low you couldn't start the tractor anyway.

 

[Dwd14329]

(quoted from post at 05:13:51 12/13/23) Yes the ignition coil, I have had the same problem with an old Pontiac that had a failing ignition coil. It took a while to find it, with lots of hair pulling. I think you should thoroughly check the ignition system. Take your time, use a multimeter, double check everything. The charging system shouldn't have an effect on the ignition, unless (as posted) the voltage is so low you couldn't start the tractor anyway.

Been working on this tractor every day and the only thing I can't confirm or check is the ignition coil. It's worth replacing at this point. The only other possibilities from what I've read is a bad vacuum leak or vapor lock. But I'm thinking it would run bad at all times if that was the case. Being that this consistently starts up and runs good for a couple minutes then starts puttering, sounds like it could very well be the ignition coil. It's worth replacing at this time. Had to replace the starter solinoid but that's all good now.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 14:14:35 12/14/23)
Been working on this tractor every day and the only thing I can't confirm or check is the ignition coil. It's worth replacing at this point.

go for it. this is an occasion when the saying "don't replace anything until you can prove it's bad" fails to acknowledge that we can't necessarily prove certain things to be bad.

you can't prove it's bad, but you have good reason to think so at this point. if your choices are to risk < $20 or let it sit unused forever, i know what my choice would be

 

[Factotum]

Been working on this tractor every day and the only thing I can't confirm or check is the ignition coil. It's worth replacing at this point. The only other possibilities from what I've read is a bad vacuum leak or vapor lock. But I'm thinking it would run bad at all times if that was the case. Being that this consistently starts up and runs good for a couple minutes then starts puttering, sounds like it could very well be the ignition coil. It's worth replacing at this time. Had to replace the starter solinoid but that's all good now.[/quote]


Youre right a bad vacuum leak would make it run bad always. Vapor lock could be a thing but I doubt it, I don't think that is something that afflicts these engines unless it's really hot out, even then I doubt it. Easy things first, ignition coil is easier than valve clearances which isn't too bad to check either. Adjusting them is somewhat more difficult. Does the engine sound a bit mechanical clicking or tapping especially on the exhaust side when running? Very quiet or very loud valve noise is the concern here, quiet meaning no clearance which could cause popping exhaust. If you haven't done so yet, I would also check your valve clearances. My '51 would start and run good but after a few minutes it would start popping out the exhaust. I had very little clearance which I think went to no clearance once the engine warmed a little. I also has good coompression when cold. If you don't know what your clearance is, you don't know, so you can't rule it out. Mine runs much better with the proper clearance. Sorry to send you on another path but it's good to know this stuff. Enjoy the learning!

This post was edited by Factotum on 12/14/2023 at 11:55 am.

 

[Eman85]

(quoted from post at 10:14:35 12/14/23)
Been working on this tractor every day and the only thing I can't confirm or check is the ignition coil. It's worth replacing at this point. The only other possibilities from what I've read is a bad vacuum leak or vapor lock. But I'm thinking it would run bad at all times if that was the case. Being that this consistently starts up and runs good for a couple minutes then starts puttering, sounds like it could very well be the ignition coil. It's worth replacing at this time. Had to replace the starter solinoid but that's all good now.

Have you tested the spark yet?
What happened to the solenoid that required replacing.
3 pages, I've lost track did you do a fuel flow test?

 

[Dwd14329]

(quoted from post at 09:51:15 12/15/23)

(quoted from post at 10:14:35 12/14/23)
Been working on this tractor every day and the only thing I can't confirm or check is the ignition coil. It's worth replacing at this point. The only other possibilities from what I've read is a bad vacuum leak or vapor lock. But I'm thinking it would run bad at all times if that was the case. Being that this consistently starts up and runs good for a couple minutes then starts puttering, sounds like it could very well be the ignition coil. It's worth replacing at this time. Had to replace the starter solinoid but that's all good now.

Have you tested the spark yet?
What happened to the solenoid that required replacing.
3 pages, I've lost track did you do a fuel flow test?

I get good spark after I start it up then little to none after a half minute or so of running. I replaced solinoid it engages the starter now. Not sure if it was coincidence but it's turning over which previously the solinoid was just clicking. I ordered a key switch and an ignition coil. Cost not too bad, I can always return them if not the issue. I checked everything that I could on the fuel side but honestly it sounds like fuel is not reaching plugs but then again plugs are carbin fouled after I run a few times trying to diagnose. Have to remove them and clean them often. Excessive carbon would mean fuel enriched correct? I'm thinking now that I'm not getting enough voltage to plugs to combust fuel properly. One or the other, I'll have to illuminate the ignition circuit as possible cause first. Make sense?

 

[Jim L WA]

Dwd14329, I'm getting confused here. In your initial post, you say it runs for a couple of minutes, then sounds like it's running on 2 cylinders, clears up and then cuts out again. Then later on page two, you say that if you increase the R.P.M.'s it runs smooth.

So does it only act up at idle or what? Have you tried leaning the idle mixture on the carburetor? The smaller one, turn it out for lean.

 

[Eman85]

Please stop the car and let us out!
One thing at a time. Did you get the spark tester and check the spark with it????
Did you ever check the battery voltage and then start the tractor and take a voltage reading and confirm the alternator is charging?
Don't change parts guessing, the parts you intsall could cause more problems as most are not good quality.

 

[Dwd14329]

(quoted from post at 15:03:06 12/15/23) Dwd14329, I'm getting confused here. In your initial post, you say it runs for a couple of minutes, then sounds like it's running on 2 cylinders, clears up and then cuts out again. Then later on page two, you say that if you increase the R.P.M.'s it runs smooth.

So does it only act up at idle or what? Have you tried leaning the idle mixture on the carburetor? The smaller one, turn it out for lean.

Yah Jim, it's doing some weird things everytime I start it. I can understand the confusion. I did try making adjustments on air/fuel mix. I don't have enough time while its running smooth to make any adjustments. I tried adjustments before starting but no luck. It acts up if I
Increase rpms as well. I've rebuilt the back up carb I had on it originally, soaked it, made sure vent was clear and the strange thing was there was no difference at all after installing the rebuilt carb. That lead me to think it was electrical or ignition issues. I mean, I should have seen some difference after replacing carb, right? But it was identical issue so i just ruled out carb/fuel. Let me add that I flushed the tank, etc.. and made sure I had good delivery prior to replacing carb. So that's why I'm too the point of replacing key switch or coil. I'll definitely update this post of its the culprit.

 

[Dwd14329]

(quoted from post at 15:03:06 12/15/23) Dwd14329, I'm getting confused here. In your initial post, you say it runs for a couple of minutes, then sounds like it's running on 2 cylinders, clears up and then cuts out again. Then later on page two, you say that if you increase the R.P.M.'s it runs smooth.

So does it only act up at idle or what? Have you tried leaning the idle mixture on the carburetor? The smaller one, turn it out for lean.

Yah Jim, it's doing some weird things everytime I start it. I can understand the confusion. I did try making adjustments on air/fuel mix. I don't have enough time while its running smooth to make any adjustments. I tried adjustments before starting but no luck. It acts up if I
Increase rpms as well. I've rebuilt the back up carb I had on it originally, soaked it, made sure vent was clear and the strange thing was there was no difference at all after installing the rebuilt carb. That lead me to think it was electrical or ignition issues. I mean, I should have seen some difference after replacing carb, right? But it was identical issue so i just ruled out carb/fuel. Let me add that I flushed the tank, etc.. and made sure I had good delivery prior to replacing carb. So that's why I'm too the point of replacing key switch or coil. I'll definitely update this post of its the culprit.