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Which Magneto for a D?

J

Joel Sanderson

Member
The '47 D I recently bought has a batter-coil ignition, and I'm not getting any spark. My '44 A has a magneto and has not given me any trouble in the ten years I've used it, so I think I'd like to put a magneto on my D. It seems there are two kinds that would work on this. One is a Wico; the other is an Edison Splitdorf. The Wico is like the book shows, and it looks like the one on my A. The Wico has the plug-in ports for the spark wires, while the Splitdorf doesn't seem to. Do they screw on? Not sure I can tell by a picture.

I have an oil pump I'll be mounting under it too, if that makes any difference.

Anyone have an opinion on what to go with? I plan to use this tractor for as long as it's useful to me, then probably sell it in several years for something else--so function and sale value both are important.

Here are pictures of the two types of magnetos. (I lifted these off the internet and don't claim anything on the images.)

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the help.

joel


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Not to be a party pooper but I swap mags for distributer so the engine can operate with an advance curve .
Is the non functional distributer ignition system connected to the mag terminal on the ignition switch ?
 
Lack of spark is most likely a simple thing as needing to clean or replace the points. Or fix bad wiring. Both very simple and will not cost much. Replacing the distributor with a mag if you have to buy the mag can cost well over $250 and a new set of points might be $10
 
That would do it right there. IF you put twelve volts of power to the
kill wire on the mag, you most likely burn up the mag.
 
Show us a picture of what you have on it now. If it is a Delco dist. I'd say to stay with that !
If you must have a mag. go with the more common wico. Going to be hard to find parts for that Edison one.
 

Not to be a party pooper but I swap mags for distributer so the engine can operate with an advance curve .
Is the non functional distributer ignition system connected to the mag terminal on the ignition switch ?
 
I really don't know how to answer this, because I don't understand the question. That's the crux of my problem. (Not understanding.) I'm a blacksmith, and electricity is not in my
realm. I can grasp what's going on with a magneto, but the battery system? Well, no.
 
Here's a picture of what I have. Not sure what I'm looking at. Maybe you can help. Should I get rid of it or not? When I first looked at this tractor, it was sitting outside in a rainstorm, and the fellow who had it started it right up. I was impressed, because my A likes to drop dead when a shower hits it. So I thought the ignition on this old thing must be pretty strong. I brought it home, drove it a mile to my house, and it died as I backed it into place. Hasn't run since. I bought a spark tester (one of those that lights up) and there's no spark to either lung. Not sure how to test anything to know what's what. But a magneto is so simple....
 
It was common to replace mags with distributors. never heard of any body wanting to go the other way. Mags what usually were trouble so gotten rid of. Only a purries colloctor would want to swap a troblersom mag in place of a distributor.
 
they built the D for 30 years and I have never seen a distributor on a D. just saying have never seen one. nothing wrong with a mag.so that means there is one heck of a lot of tractors with a mag on them. least you can hand start them without a battery. pretty well all the ones I have seen and had , used the top picture mag. the AR had the wico mag.
 
Well that answers that pretty clearly! Thanks!

So do you have an opinion about which mag to use? Or whether or not to make the change back to mag at all?
 
Hmmm. Except that my A with a mag sparks and my D doesn't. Maybe instead I need to study how these modern battery and coil systems work and figure out what's wrong. Maybe.
 
I own..Operate ..and maintain three John Deere Styled "Ds"

I own TWO Battery (12 Volt) Ignition Systems( stored ). When and only when the Wico Mags fail shall I change to the Battery required (12 Volt) Ignition Systems.

I also own three Edison Splitdorff Mags.....I shall be keeping but have no intention on ever installing:

I also own five spare Wico Mags....

My Two Styled John Deere "AR's" have Wico Mags. I've never had a minutes trouble with the AR's Mags since I purchased then in 1975.

I totally can appreciate the "Battery (12 Volt) Ignition Systems".

As I have no parasitics on any of the "D's...Lights...etc...I shall someday change one "D" to the battery required Ignition system only for conversation purposes and non other:

Bob...




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That is the delco dist. I'd sure keep it ! They are even easier than a magneto. If you have power to the coil the points just may need cleaned to get spark again.

I have bought several like that. Ran when I looked at it and then got home and could not even start them to unload off the trailer.
 
(quoted from post at 22:45:38 07/31/19) I really don't know what you mean. Put 12 volts to a magneto? I'm not following.

What's a kill wire?
Click to expand...

Told you back on my first post about the kill wire but anyways .
For reasons I do not understand . People here and elsewhere will willingly spend hundreds and thousands of dollars plus hours, days or weeks of time and suffer frustration along with lack of production . All because they REFUSE to take 20 minutes and learn how something works . And they will fight anyone attempting to teach them tooth and nail to avoid learning how something works.
Let s think here, how do you start and stop a points and coil ( Kettering Ignition System ) ignition engine vs starting and stopping a magneto engine ?
Points Coil system, voltage applied and the engine runs . Voltage removed and the engine stops .
Magneto Ignition system, grounds the system and the engine stop. Let that stop terminal float without being connected, the engine runs .
This is where Bubba and his brother in-law/cousin Billy Bob remove a magneto and install a coil points system . Without it crossing their minds . Why are they connecting the points coil system to the same circuit and terminal on the "ignition switch" as the magneto and expecting the points coil system to work ?
 
Ha ha! Yeah, that's my situation.

I opened up the distributor and cleaned the points. Nothing. I don't know how to test for current to the distributor, coil and so on. Don't even know what coil it should have.

This tractor has good compression, judging by the way the flywheel rocks back and forth when it quits cranking. The radiator core appears to be new, and so are the tires. The carburetor has newer paint, and I was told it'd been sent out and rebuilt. If I can get this old beast going I think I'll have a nice machine that'll do lotsa work. But there's that getting it going problem... :)
 

This is where you hire an expert and save yourself many hours and dollars .
Not every Joe off the street can pickup a hammer and pound a piece of iron or steel to shape using a hearth and anvil .
 
Wow, Bob, I appreciate this a lot. You gave information rather than opinion. Thank you.

I don't think the mag on my A has that nut on the side where you show to connect the kill switch. I'll look on the back of it, but I don't remember one there. Would that be a later model than my XH1042?
 
Got a volt meter or a test light ? Turn the switch on and test for power at the wire as seen in pic on the top of your coil. This would be a first step.
 
I don't think I fall into the "REFUSE to take 20 minutes to learn how something works" category since I've already spent more than that asking and trying to learn from people here,
not to mention the rest of my attempt you're not aware of. I don't think I'm fighting you either, since I'm asking and not telling. But I can appreciate the reprimand anyway. When
you're talking to an electrical idiot (me) it must be frustrating.

My A, with the Wico mag, has no shut off. It is shut down by draining the carburetor bowl, and that's described in the manual. The spark stays on. Never heard of a "kill switch"
until you brought it up. No mention of that in the manual.

I grew up farming with diesels (730, 80, 3010, 4020) and one Farmal H that had electrical issues we never have resolved. So this is a new path I'm trying to figure out with help
from very friendly people like you. I appreciate your patience and willingness to explain.

Soooo... Is there a Kill Switch on this tractor I don't know about? No mention of that in its manual either, since the manual's for a magneto. Maybe the light switch needs to be in
some position I've not been told.

(See, I really am an electrical idiot. Patience here, please.)

Thanks for helping.

Joel
 
I don't have one. I need to get one and have someone on hand show me how to use it. I need to get some basic electrical instruction books and read, read, read. But then I need to remember, remember, remember; and that's the real problem.

I think we might be on to something here. The switch needs to be on??? Oh my. I might be dumber than a box of rocks. I hope so, in this case.
 
I am a dummy when it comes to things like that but I have been able to take a Delco distributor completely apart and clean and put back together working. A distributor has to have a switch with wire in from battery and out to distributor. Too many years to remember just how things are hooked up there. If a Wico distributor throw away and replace with a Delco. Wico could not be repaired 40 years ago. On a mag Deere never put a switch on them. Sepposed to stop them by shetting fuel off, chocking or like we did, idle as slow as possible, put in high gear and apply both brakes and partially engauge clutch. Could be if you knew what to do be hooked to a switch to stop and it would be a one wire grounded switch like the IH Farmall had. If you had to use a normal 2 wire switch one was hooked to mag and the other was to place on dash where switch was mounted. Allis used a shorting strip on the mag.. I don't know of anybody in last 40 years that actually new what to do to work on a mag. I go to the Portland, Indiana tractor show every year and they usually have one or two mag repair on site venders there. Might just might be one for either the spring or fall swap meets. But then if you depend on it and have to wait a year to find one of those places you are stuck. Most anybody can figure out a Delco distributor.
 
We have likely all done it. I have troubles with hand crank machines with mags if someone added a kill switch. After many cranks I finally remember to turn the switch ! lol.
 
(quoted from post at 09:17:55 08/01/19) I don't have one. I need to get one and have someone on hand show me how to use it. I need to get some basic electrical instruction books and read, read, read. But then I need to remember, remember, remember; and that's the real problem.

I think we might be on to something here. The switch needs to be on??? Oh my. I might be dumber than a box of rocks. I hope so, in this case.
Click to expand...

The ignition switch has a terminal for Magneto use and another terminal for coil/points use .
The Mag terminal floats isolated from power and isolated from chassis when the switch is on. Turn the switch off and the Mag terminal connects to ground .
The switch s battery ignition terminal for coil/points systems floats when the switch is in the off position . When the switch is in any other position than "off". Battery voltage is being sent to the switch s ignition terminal and the coil s negative terminal on a Pos ground tractor .
When swapping a mag off the tractor and installing a coil points system . At the back of the ignition switch. Move the switched wire from mag terminal to the ignition terminal .
 
NO, the john deere D never had a kill switch. you had to turn of the gas then wait for it to stop. there was a 3 position knob on the left of the dash, there was a rod running to the valve. so there u go don't need to be an electrical engineer. looking at the mag in the top picture which is the correct one it has a small nut on top. pretty sure this is the magneto ground. you can hook your own switch to that and kill it that way if you want an electrical shut off.
 
that would be the wire you ground it out to stop it. and NO you don't put power to this wire its a ground for the points. the battery is just for starting the tractor and that's it. magneto makes its own power!. the early D's did not even have a starter. you had to turn the flywheel by hand to start them. I can remember my uncle starting his when I was like 4 or 5 years old. in the early sixty's.
 
No reason why a mag kill wire can not be run from the D?s ignition switch to the mag. Most D?s are operated on gasoline . It is no longer critical to drain the distillate from the carb by running it dry
 
(quoted from post at 17:43:22 07/31/19) I really don't know how to answer this, because I don't understand the question. That's the crux of my problem. (Not understanding.) I'm a blacksmith, and electricity is not in my
realm. I can grasp what's going on with a magneto, but the battery system? Well, no.
Click to expand...

Magneto, connected to nothing to operate the engine . Ground the magneto to stop the engine .
Kettering coil/points system . Apply battery voltage to operate engine . Remove battery power and the engine stops .
Key switch on the Off position grounds the mag terminal and open the battery connection to the coil ignition terminal.
Key switch in the "I" run position . Magneto terminal floats and is not connected to the battery and is not connected to ground . Switch Terminal for coil ignition has battery voltage applied when the switch in in any position other than Off. .
 
Do you have a source for the spacer beneath the oil pump? If not, where can I find the dimensions so I can make one? Thank you.

Joel
 
I think it's the one on the right, but I'd better be more sure. You told me i needed a spacer. How do i know which one I need for my pump?
 
I'm unable to locate the supplier on the INTERNET of these spacers and drive bars....

When I locate the supplier I shall post information...?

I suppled the below info as per measurements to someone else....then they made a paper template using the MAG. Housing.....the outside profile... is not that important.

Mounting HOLE and timing slot can be machined from the paper template..

Bob...



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Hey, that's great, Bob! Thank you. I should be able to make one off from that.

I think I might post pictures of how I set up my D with hydraulics: making the tank, positioning the lines, etc. Might be interesting to some people, and better yet, I'm sure I'll get some suggestions from people on how to do it better.

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it and respect your knowledge.

Joel
 
Quote:
I think I might post pictures of how I set up my D with hydraulics: making the tank, positioning the lines, etc. Might be interesting to some people, and better yet, I'm sure I'll get some suggestions from people on how to do it better.


Yes, please do post pictures as your design progress. Always good to see someone's ideas unfold.


Bob....
 
I attended an auction on Aug,10,2019....John Deere "D" 1951 had a live Hydraulic Oil Pump installed....

Several pictures ?.Note Moisture defector..



Bob....
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