Painting Basic Questions

[Greg Reed]

While it's cold outside in the Midwest, and I'm just in planning stages .... I need some advice on paint! I tried to research as much as I can already, but still unsure of a few things. I get that there are two basic types of paint:

Alkyd Enamel - the basic "tractor paint" in TSC, etc. Cheapest solution.
Acrylic Enamel, with or without hardener - more expensive, better finish

I'll be painting a Ford 850. It's used on a regular basis, I'm not looking for show quality. However, I plan to spend a lot of time on prep work, and only want to repaint once. The tractor is kept indoors (when not in use of course!)

My questions:

1. Overall recommendation?
2. If I skip the hardener with the acrylic enamel (to avoid the nasty isocy... chemicals), how then does it compare to the alkyd enamel?
3. Is one more forgiving than the other for spraying? I've painted before, but I'm not an expert
4. Which brands are most recommended, and where to buy?
5. Bugs are just a factor of life in Michigan. Which option will give shortest time to not having a panel of embedded dead mosquitos?

Thanks!

 

[560Dennis]

I did my Fordson with Tallmans Ag specialitys (also sold here at YT ,not pushing YT ) . Talking to them ( Tallmans) they offered advice . Talked to Dick Van Sickle there in emails .
I sprayed sheet metal with hvlp gun. Reduced per their recommendation. And brushed the cast iron thin to their recommendation. I did not use a hardener , was in no hurry for the paint to dry ,
If get another paint job that is really important to me for quality fit and finish , they are the only paint I will use .

 

[Tgrasher]

Tallmans is made by Van Sickle and both have been good for me. I encourage you to use hardener on your sheet metal to give it more durability. Painting outside is doable, one just needs to watch the weather and time when the insects are at a minimum.

 

[Farmerwright97]

lot of brands and options out there, my advice would be finding a local bodyshop and have them mix it for you if it's your first time. paint is one of those things that typically the more you spend the better the results will be. as far as keeping bugs off the paint I hang bug zappers in our shop for a few days before and during painting, also a light mist of water on the floor will keep the dust down while you're spraying. main thing is take your time and dont be afraid to ask too many questions

 

[JohnRowehl]

I was fortunate to find a local family run body shop to spray paint the sheet metal for me. We used the hardener not to hasten drying but to resist fading even though they will be out of the sun 90% of the time. Shines nicely.

I brush on paint on the cast iron. Haven’t figured out how to avoid brush marks on other smaller smooth surface steel parts. Try to get those to the body shop if I have enough at one time or if timing is right with the sheet metal. Started to try foam brushes.

I have been using Tallman’s on my Olivers. I like it but not a lot of time has elapsed to see how well it holds up, particularly where hardener was not used.
One thing I have found with that brand is the meadow green color out of an aerosol can is off from the color of paint in a can. I called the retailer about it. They said they’d not gotten any other complaints about that and sent me a couple replacement cans. Same thing again.

Don’t know exactly know why he said it but my body shop guy said he thought the Tallman’s gray primer was “good stuff.”

I have been using CaseIH brand 2150 on my Farmall. So far I really like us it as I’m brushing it on. Dries fast. Need to use lacquer thinner to clean the brushes. Haven’t gotten the sheet metal to the body shop yet to get any feedback about how it goes on with a sprayer.

 

[drsportster]

To avoid brush marks use a flow enhancer and a sponge brush.

 

[showcrop]

While it's cold outside in the Midwest, and I'm just in planning stages .... I need some advice on paint! I tried to research as much as I can already, but still unsure of a few things. I get that there are two basic types of paint:

Alkyd Enamel - the basic "tractor paint" in TSC, etc. Cheapest solution.
Acrylic Enamel, with or without hardener - more expensive, better finish

I'll be painting a Ford 850. It's used on a regular basis, I'm not looking for show quality. However, I plan to spend a lot of time on prep work, and only want to repaint once. The tractor is kept indoors (when not in use of course!)

My questions:

1. Overall recommendation?
2. If I skip the hardener with the acrylic enamel (to avoid the nasty isocy... chemicals), how then does it compare to the alkyd enamel?
3. Is one more forgiving than the other for spraying? I've painted before, but I'm not an expert
4. Which brands are most recommended, and where to buy?
5. Bugs are just a factor of life in Michigan. Which option will give shortest time to not having a panel of embedded dead mosquitos?

Thanks!

Greg, congrats on figuring out the basics of paint. Yes, Acrylic enamel is a lot more than alkyd, but it performs far better and is still 25% of the price of "good" paint. Since you are performing extensive prep you don't want to throw that away by having the paint deteriorate in just a few years. Here is the H that the local FFA did for my friend around 17 years ago. You can see that the Alkyd enamel held up well under the decals. I use hardener on jobs that matter. I believe that I change the air in my shop adequately for it to be safe. I believe especially in hardener to keep bright colors from fading. I have been using Nason which is a PPG economy line. Hardener will make a huge difference with bugs.

 

[Goose]

Tallmans is made by Van Sickle and both have been good for me. I encourage you to use hardener on your sheet metal to give it more durability. Painting outside is doable, one just needs to watch the weather and time when the insects are at a minimum.

I agree. Hardener is what gives the paint the gloss and durability. Plus, if bugs are a concern, you want the paint tu set up 'bug free' as soon as possible.

 

[jseiwert]

No expert here for sure, but have painted quite a few tractors and other things over the years. The gentleman above who said gloss hardner is what gives paint very good shine is spot on, only thing i will add is I wont ever repaint a tractor with any type of paint except what it came from the factory with. The reason being, is that when it fades , and it will fade, they dont look right if they are shot with a different type of paint. Been there , done that, once. Your mileage may vary,,,

 

[J.Wondergem]

No expert here for sure, but have painted quite a few tractors and other things over the years. The gentleman above who said gloss hardner is what gives paint very good shine is spot on, only thing i will add is I wont ever repaint a tractor with any type of paint except what it came from the factory with. The reason being, is that when it fades , and it will fade, they dont look right if they are shot with a different type of paint. Been there , done that, once. Your mileage may vary,,,

You can't even buy paint like they used to paint with unless it's the last few years.

 

[flying belgian]

While it's cold outside in the Midwest, and I'm just in planning stages .... I need some advice on paint! I tried to research as much as I can already, but still unsure of a few things. I get that there are two basic types of paint:

Alkyd Enamel - the basic "tractor paint" in TSC, etc. Cheapest solution.
Acrylic Enamel, with or without hardener - more expensive, better finish

I'll be painting a Ford 850. It's used on a regular basis, I'm not looking for show quality. However, I plan to spend a lot of time on prep work, and only want to repaint once. The tractor is kept indoors (when not in use of course!)

My questions:

1. Overall recommendation?
2. If I skip the hardener with the acrylic enamel (to avoid the nasty isocy... chemicals), how then does it compare to the alkyd enamel?
3. Is one more forgiving than the other for spraying? I've painted before, but I'm not an expert
4. Which brands are most recommended, and where to buy?
5. Bugs are just a factor of life in Michigan. Which option will give shortest time to not having a panel of embedded dead mosquitos?

Thanks!

I like "Old 55" it is an equipment enamel available at Mills Fleet farm.

 

[jseiwert]

Guess I didn't write out clearly what I meant to say. I meant to say that I use John Deere paint with gloss hardener on a John Deere tractor, if I was painting a International tractor, I would get paint and hardener from a case International dealer. Im very aware that paints as well as a lot of other things are not the same as they were 50 years ago.

 

[JohnRowehl]

Guess I didn't write out clearly what I meant to say. I meant to say that I use John Deere paint with gloss hardener on a John Deere tractor, if I was painting an International tractor, I would get paint and hardener from a case International dealer. Im very aware that paints as well as a lot of other things are not the same as they were 50 years ago.

The Case-IH 2150 Ironguard I have is labeled as a modified alkyd enamel. (whatever modified means)
I’m curious how the John Deere brand is labeled.

 

[showcrop]

Guess I didn't write out clearly what I meant to say. I meant to say that I use John Deere paint with gloss hardener on a John Deere tractor, if I was painting a International tractor, I would get paint and hardener from a case International dealer. Im very aware that paints as well as a lot of other things are not the same as they were 50 years ago.

You need to come around and recognize that neither JD nor IH or CNH or New Holland make any paint. You need to buy it by what it is not on what it goes on.

 

[jseiwert]

Don't think I ever said that John Deere made there own paint, or Case IH, Just said thats where I buy it. Certainly didn't mean to agitate anyone, Certainly not a very friendly bunch on here, just tried to explain what works for me, Whatever works for you all is fine, I'm gone,,,,

 

[tomturkey]

What ever paint and hardener you purchase, make the retailer get you the material safety data sheets. Those will tell you the personal protective equipment that/should/otta be used with the product. Hardener is a isocyanate and has been discussed and debated at length here on this forum. Be aware of what you are dealing with, you only get one pair of lungs. gobble

 

[showcrop]

What ever paint and hardener you purchase, make the retailer get you the material safety data sheets. Those will tell you the personal protective equipment that/should/otta be used with the product. Hardener is a isocyanate and has been discussed and debated at length here on this forum. Be aware of what you are dealing with, you only get one pair of lungs. gobble

There is no need to ask the retailer. SDS won't tell you what is correct for protection, only to use adequate protection.

 

[tomturkey]

All the more reason to be aware of the dangers, by educating oneself. But by all means do as you please. gobble

 

[Fixingfarmer]

The Case-IH 2150 Ironguard I have is labeled as a modified alkyd enamel. (whatever modified means)
I’m curious how the John Deere brand is labeled.

I’ve actually been curious about the John Deere quarts and gallons of case ih red and how it works. Has anyone tried it? Ive avoided it a bit because I’m sure it sits on the shelf a bit more. I’ve used the rattle can for the gas caps from time to time and it looks great. I know it’s not John Deere paint but if it uses the same mixing rates as what I’m used to and I know how it’s going to act. And the other thing is if you can find out what it was painted with before you will have better luck with it adhering and I suppose that’s a reason not to do it on a red one as John Deere paint is notorious for not liking other kinds of paint below or above you will have flaking easier and faster. The most recent customer actually said I brought this to you for the major engine work because we just painted this ourselves and we know you will do John Deere paint on what you replace. I didn’t know I had gotten that reputation although I have sprayed a lot of classic green and the coop coffee table doesn’t have much for secrets even if I have never attended. Often however I pick a different yellow as that seems to have been fairly consistent and the last one I did was actually tallmans. It seems like the yellow from Deere runs more and settles out worse than the green but it also seems like there’s more dust on the can when bought so I suppose I need to stir much more with that drill. Also the lighter color is worse to see but I’ve had better luck with about anything else. And I’m sure I’m violating the same rule I have about different paints on the yellow. But it’s the cast wheels and not the hood. There’s usually some pealing around there from the previous 3 rattle can job that needs scrapped off so that’s a better surface to adhere to