NH 650 Round Baler Pivot Roll

[farmersamm]

Ok..........the burning question....................

If I'm reading this right, this is a preloaded bearing? It's not available except as a bearing/gear assembly for a lot more than I want to pay.

The bearing that fits it is a W209PPB2, which when pulled up on the internet, is a standard disc harrow bearing. Has anyone either had experience with the baler bearing, or the disc bearing??

My question is whether the off the shelf bearing is hard to turn when new, indicating that it's preloaded.

 

[farmersamm]

And, the sentence that says that the bearing can be removed by turning it 90* tells me that it's possibly some sort of special bearing. I'm gonna tear the gear assembly down this evening. IF IT WILL COME APART.............THIS OL' THING IS 30YRS OLD.

 

[mtf]

That bearing has to be tight when in that housing. Hence those
torque settings offered in the manual. There is no real way to
increase or decrease those numbers, without replacing the
bearing and housing as a set. It says in your manual they are
select fitted at the factory.

I googled part number 87052121 and it is available aftermarket
for 200 ish dollars.

If that bearing is not tight enough in that housing, the race
will spin inside the housing causing premature wear.

 

[farmersamm]

(quoted from post at 15:23:51 06/10/23) That bearing has to be tight when in that housing. Hence those
torque settings offered in the manual. There is no real way to
increase or decrease those numbers, without replacing the
bearing and housing as a set. It says in your manual they are
select fitted at the factory.

I googled part number 87052121 and it is available aftermarket
for 200 ish dollars.

If that bearing is not tight enough in that housing, the race
will spin inside the housing causing premature wear.

Between what you said, and others I asked, it looks like I wasn't thinking of the bearing in the gear bore as a typical flange style bearing that has to move in order to allow the shaft to align. I get it now.

So...........essentially the manual is half way trying to tell you that there's a light interference fit......which to me, would have either been better explained with a drawing/pic of the test procedure, or simply expressing the interference fit in thousands, or tenths.

As far as the numbers not being able to change........ If ya gotta lathe, it's a no brainer. Increase bore size, or pad it, and turn it back to smaller diameter.

 

[farmersamm]

I almost forgot. Thanks! You and some other fellas helped to clear up the mystery.

 

[farmersamm]

ROFL.............it just occurred to me that you couldn't turn the inside bore unless you had a profiling insert on a CNC machine.

Might be able to grind a form tool, but it'd sure have to be accurate, and you'd be severely limited in DOC on a manual machine.

 

[mtf]

That is why I feel like the$200 aftermarket assembly is
reasonable. I have replaced that set on a 660, and it is a
pretty good job. I would do it right the first time.

That pivot roll might be hard to source.

 

[Destroked 450]

Not sure where you re located but my cousins have retired their 650 baler here in Ky
Not sure if they will part it out or sell it complete
They replaced it last year with a BR7070 like I have

 

[farmersamm]

Pulled the gear out of the "new" roller. It's pristine, and I don't want to put it in a severely worn geartrain.

Gear was removed from the broken roller for reuse. It was impossible to remove the bearing because it had rusted solid in the gear bore.

Bearing was cut out, cleaned, and inside bore mic'd to determine if it's too worn to reuse.

The bore is within .001 of the bearing OD, so it's good to reuse.

Bearings are inbound. A good quality National for the right side, and a lesser quality Dura Roll for the left side(I just need it to get through the season....the geartrain will require a rebuild this Winter)

I'm trying to decide where to order new belts from. The old ones are as slick as a banana, and the lacing is shot.

These came from the factory with Mini Rough Top belts, so that's what's going back in.

Every seller claims to have USA made belts. One seller is proud that he doesn't sell WCCO belts, which are American made. I have no idea who makes acceptable belts.

Thickness is another question. The belts range from .230 to .285, with the thickest being .315 I'm leaning towards the thin belts.

Two types of lacing are available. Clipper, and Mato. These balers came from the factory with Clipper laces. I also read somewhere(forget where), that the small diameter rollers on these balers don't like the Mato laces...........dunno.

I do know that I'd like to be able to replace the pins regularly. The pins in the old belts had worn into the clips, and had to be cut out. Dunno which style of lacing is easier to replace pins, but I suspect the Mato are easier.

I'm not at all familiar with belt balers. I've run an 846 for over 20 years. I actually think it's more reliable maintenance wise, and does a better job of baling a wider variety of crops. But.....the belt baler does make some nice tight bales, and hopefully will start a bale better with the new belts.

 

[Destroked 450]

I never paid much attention to the belt thickness, the number of belt plys is the important part
I ll check the thickness and number of plys on my BR7070
They recommend replacing the lacing pins every 3000 bales or I ended up with around 4000 bales on mine each time I replaced them
The baler has around 9000 bale on the counter and the back side of the clipper lace is getting worn pretty thin. I need to replace all of the belts before next years hay season

 

[MJMJ]

Belt thickness isn t a big deal as long as they re all the same. I don t know about those particular belts, but many came smooth from the factory. Its possible that just relacing is all thats needed. May be worth looking at considering the cost of belts.

 

[farmersamm]

(quoted from post at 12:37:32 06/15/23) Belt thickness isn t a big deal as long as they re all the same. I don t know about those particular belts, but many came smooth from the factory. Its possible that just relacing is all thats needed. May be worth looking at considering the cost of belts.

I'd like to relace them, but I'm thinking they're not worth the effort. [b:22a1c43585]Especially since the baler refuses to start a bale for about a year now[/b:22a1c43585] Worked sort of ok the first year I had it. Was an emergency buy to finish out haying season.

But the next year, it wouldn't handle any kind of dry hay. Only would start a bale, trouble free, in the morning when there was dew on the windrows. Sometimes after digging it out 2 or 3 times........you could run 5mph, and make a very nice bale.

Last time I ran it, you could only start a bale by getting off the tractor, and breaking up the windrow for about 30 feet. Tearing it apart with a rake, and fluffing it up. Even then, it was a real gamble.

Although it might appear that there's some roughness on the belts, they feel like glass when you run your hand across them.

Even the backside is dry rotted.

It's a ton of money, so I'm very nervous about the decision. But I feel it's the only thing to do. The thing is nothing but a red paper weight right now.

 

[farmersamm]

New belts start at $225, and go up to around $280.

I'm thinking of selling out in the next few years, so it's a real nail biter. BUT, LAST YEAR, HAY WAS GOING FOR $100, AND THIS YEAR IT'S STILL OVERPRICED AT $50. You can't feed cows on $50 bales.

If you really squint, and stick your tongue out, I guess a guy could justify near on $1500 in belts by figuring it's the cost of having to buy 30 bales.

 

[Destroked 450]

Those are getting in pretty rough shape, I d be concerned about the lacing pulling out due to the age and condition of the belts
Have you checked the belt tension, my old 640 was giving problems starting a bale due to the belts being to loose. Not sure on your 650 but on my old 640 the top tailgate roller could be raised to another set of holes to tighten the belts
You shouldn t be able to push the belts in more than a few inches
If the belts are to loose hay will push the belts back and wad up inside the bale chamber instead of crimping over and starting the roll
With those 20+ year old belt I would pull forward to pick up some hay, then stop long enough for the baler to suck in the hay and start the roll, then I could roll on a make a bale
If I didn t stop long enough for it to start the roll I d be off unplugging the pickup
The real cure was a new set of belts but that one was a silage baler with endless belts

 

[farmersamm]

[b:46a24728c9]Looks Like We're Goin' Down the Rabbit Hole[/b:46a24728c9]

Went to pull the baler out of the "shop", and decided to do a quick check of the other sledge roller bearings. Thank God I did.

The left side.

Two pics of the right side.

Now we're looking at removing the entire sledge assembly to do a decent rebuild.

I don't make nasty comments about this kind of repair. Guy probably did the best he could do. It's on me that I didn't notice the problem earlier.

On my deathbed, breathing my last breath..........I WILL REMEMBER THIS BALER!!!!!!!!! ROFL

 

[farmersamm]

Very cool.

Looked up the patent number on the back of the belt.

 

[farmersamm]

All progress this weekend got halted by severe windstorms here in OK. 98mph straight winds, so they say.........anyone wonder how they come up with 98mph?? Maybe sounds better than 90mph.

Anyways...................

Rigged up my fancy new hoist(dunno why I never owned one of these), and lowered the sledge frame as far as it would go.

Have to stand on it to reach the handle on the hoist. Which sorta sux........you have rollers under your feet that will turn if you're not careful.

All of the fasteners have to be cut out with a torch. The plow bolts, and carriage bolts, will not do well when you try to loosen them with a wrench, or impact. They will turn in their broached pockets, and destroy the pocket. So.......it's a hot wrench job. Couldn't do it because we have no well right now. Won't have water until the power comes on. I ran the engine drive welder this weekend, to keep the AC, Fridge, Deep Freeze, and TV, running.........but I don't have a 220v drop cord for the well. Is what it is I guess. Today the power came back on, so it's back to work in the AM.

 

[Destroked 450]

Those chain hoist are real handy, we used the two I have to lift the cab off my neighbors JD tractor to repair the transmission

 

[farmersamm]

Now that we have power back, it's back to work.

The sledge roller pivots on two plates that extend through the frame.

Because the bolts are plow bolts, they have to be cut off. It's impossible to remove old plow bolts with a wrench. They spin as they loosen, and ruin the broached hole. I don't completely cut the bolt, and nut. I cut enough off to remove about 80%, and the rest is generally melted enough that it's no longer structurally sound. Trying to cut flush with the metal is a recipe for disaster..........if the Oxygen stream strays, it will cut into the part you're trying to save.

The bolts can then be removed with a drift punch.

The plates that form the pivot, are driven out from inside the bale chamber. Just far enough to clear the sledge frame at this point. I'll remove them later to clean them.

The plates were severely rusted where they go through the frame. A bit of heat expands the frame, breaks the rust bond, and allows you to drive it out. Be careful with the amount of heat input.......about 500* is more than sufficient.

When cutting in a tight area that can throw slag back in your face........... I strongly recommend leathers, safety glasses, and a #5 shade full face shield. It's also prudent to wet your shoes down in case some slag falls on your feet. This is fairly dangerous stuff.

 

[farmersamm]

once the pivots are removed, it's time to move the sledge assembly from the baler.

On the first pick, I'm able to move the assembly towards the rear of the baler just enough to rest on the starter roll. This is far enough to allow it to pivot rearward.

On the second pick, the assembly is moved to just in front of the bale ejector. Each pick is accomplished by moving the beam holding the hoist rearward, and allowing the assembly to "pendulum" rearward.

Tomorrow, I'll remove the sledge assembly from the tailgate.