Haunted Lift

[Jim in Western MI]

One of my two 8N's, both front-mount and 12-v converted, has a peculiar lift issue that I'm hoping someone else has experienced and can guide me in its correction.

Upon starting the tractor and engaging the PTO lever, the lift will rise to the top regardless of where the quadrant lever is positioned, which typically is fully lowered when I start the tractor. Raising and lowering the lever has no effect, until the PTO lever is disengaged with the quadrant lever is lowered. Plus, during routine use, such as mowing where the lift lever is at the bottom (mower has four wheels), the mower will lift nearly to the top. Usually I don't even notice until I get fully around the pasture and notice wheel tracks in the grass but no cutting is occurring; sometimes I hear the pitch change and catch it sooner. The remedy is the same then, stop the tractor, disengage the PTO, and the mower will gradually lower. Sometimes when cultivating with a heavy disc, when I exit a row, raise the disc to turn to the next row, the disc will not lower and I have to go through the same procedure. The disc is heavier than the mower and only lifts just enough to clear the ground.

Woe be it when there is no implement connected and I start the tractor with the PTO engaged, the lift raises to the top and with no weight on the arms, it will not go down at all, so connecting an implement is impossible. Only solution then is to put my 300 pounds on the arms and it takes about five minutes to gradually push the arms down.

I've studied the manuals and I sorta understand the workings of the valves and fluid passages and the operation of the piston, but I can't figure where the failure or anomaly is occurring. Anyone else fixed this problem? Thanks in advance!

 

[HFJ]

hi Jim, and welcome

i don't know what is causing your problem, but i would never start my tractor with the PTO engaged.

PTO always disengaged and clutch down. the starter motor shouldn't be trying to spin that other stuff - just the engine. once the engine is running, IT will be happy to spin that other stuff for u.

lol - ok, disregard the new user welcome, since u predate me here i usually pay more attention, but i'm running a fever and it doesn't help.

This post was edited by HFJ on 10/11/2023 at 03:17 pm.

 

[Jim in Western MI]

Thank you, HFJ. Yes, sir; I always press the clutch before starting to reduce the burden on the starter. If I had inadvertently left
the PTO forward (engaged), when I release the clutch the lift goes right up to the top, even if the quadrant control is fully down.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

The FORD TRACTOR hydraulic system is not electric and regardless if front mount or angle mount distributor, 6V or 12V, have nothing to do with the hydraulic system. Have you tried in both DRAFT CONTROL and POSITION CONTROL? Yes, always disengage the PTO when shutting down tractor for the night. Have you done a Lift Test? Do you know how? Did you check oil level and condition/color of oil? HYD SYSTEM is most likely dirty and probably needs an R&R job. Remove side inspection covers to observe oil condition and lift action. HYD SYSTEM sump on N's use transmission and hydraulic lift system as well together. Hydraulic oil should be a clear, honey-like color and consistency. If color is a murky brown or milky white, this indicates the oil is contaminated with water and system needs a flush, inspection, and probably in dire need of a rebuild. A cracked pump can be caused by water in the system freezing. These old FORDS are notorious for owners neglecting the hydraulic system. Hyd system is the #2 most neglected system on these N's. Steering boxes are 1st. Pulling top cover and removing pump is not a difficult task, just very time consuming and can be costly if you plan on removing the pump too. You can do some quick tests first that won't cost much and don't require removing the top cover. 1st is the Lift Test. Chances are the cylinder and piston are worn. The original 9N-530 piston used three steel rings as seals/wipers and wear over time. The NAA-530-N Piston was a better design using a rubber O-RING and leather backup washer/wiper. It will work on all N model systems. If Lift Test reveals cylinder is seeping oil out from piston, a complete top cover removal and new piston and cylinder are in order. But I'd plan on a total system revamp. Pulling pump and a total cleaning and rebuilding is in order. You have the cover off anyway so you are half way there with the job. While covers are off, observe if Control Arm/Rod is correctly inserted in the base port. Chances are alo that your Cam Follower Pin is worn and in need of new. If oil is good sometimes a quick fix is replacing the Safety Relief Valve, p/n 8N-638, and removing chambers and cleaning. You'll need an 11/16 Open End Stub Length Wrench to get the valve off and new one installed reaching thru side cover. A total pump rebuild can be costly -$500 not counting piston and cylinder, p/n 9N-600-MK. Do the basic simple things first. Lift Test will tell you a lot. Use your ESSENTIAL MANUALS to guide you. Plan on a new piston, cycliber, O-RING, and Safety Relief Relief Valve if nothing else. Don't try to reuse cylinder by honing or machining; that is only a band-aid at best. I wrote a document years ago for R&R'g the 8N Hydraulic System so if you want I can email you a copy - mine is open.

TRY SYSTEM IN BOTH DRAFT & POSTION CONTROL:

A SEVERELY WORN 9N-530 PISTON:

NOTE: CHANCES ARE THE CYLINDER IS WORN AND SCARRED JUST AS BAD.

REPLACE WITH THE NAA-530-B PISTON:

PULLING 8N TOP COVER:

USE YOUR MANUALS:

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[HFJ]

ah, good. glad to hear it. it never ceases to amaze me how many people think starting their tractor (or anything else) with the clutch engaged is no problem.

the folks here will get this sorted out for you. i won't be one of them - my hydraulic cover has the words HERE BE MONSTERS on it lucky for me, i literally never use the lift anymore. my N is a dedicated finish mower. i only ever used the hydraulics to raise the mower up to set up on timbers at the end of the season, and then picking it back up in the spring. now that i made enough room for the mower to spend the winter in the shed still attached to the tractor, i no longer use the lift at all.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 17:52:58 10/11/23) One of my two 8N's, both front-mount and 12-v converted, has a peculiar lift issue that I'm hoping someone else has experienced and can guide me in its correction.

Upon starting the tractor and engaging the PTO lever, the lift will rise to the top regardless of where the quadrant lever is positioned, which typically is fully lowered when I start the tractor. Raising and lowering the lever has no effect, until the PTO lever is disengaged with the quadrant lever is lowered. Plus, during routine use, such as mowing where the lift lever is at the bottom (mower has four wheels), the mower will lift nearly to the top. Usually I don't even notice until I get fully around the pasture and notice wheel tracks in the grass but no cutting is occurring; sometimes I hear the pitch change and catch it sooner. The remedy is the same then, stop the tractor, disengage the PTO, and the mower will gradually lower. Sometimes when cultivating with a heavy disc, when I exit a row, raise the disc to turn to the next row, the disc will not lower and I have to go through the same procedure. The disc is heavier than the mower and only lifts just enough to clear the ground.

Woe be it when there is no implement connected and I start the tractor with the PTO engaged, the lift raises to the top and with no weight on the arms, it will not go down at all, so connecting an implement is impossible. Only solution then is to put my 300 pounds on the arms and it takes about five minutes to gradually push the arms down.

I've studied the manuals and I sorta understand the workings of the valves and fluid passages and the operation of the piston, but I can't figure where the failure or anomaly is occurring. Anyone else fixed this problem? Thanks in advance!

bout the only thing that can cause lift to remain up is exhaust control valve stuck or linkage not moving it to exhaust position. Removing right side round inspection cover and observing, you should be able to see this movement or not.