Fiat-Hesston 1150 hydraulic issue

[farmerben]

Hello folks,
I find myself stymied by a problem with the hydraulic lift for my haybine. I'm hoping someone can enlighten me.

I used the haybine with no problems last fall, and this year when I went to start cutting I couldn't get the thing to lift up at all. I was using a different tractor than normal, so I tested out another tractor's hydraulics- same problem (and my hydraulics work for the loader on the tractor and the swing arm cylinder with no problems). No leaks anywhere that I can see. Fluid level in tractor is ok.

I checked to make sure there was oil at the cylinder- yep. Maybe I had a bad hydraulic hose? I swapped out for a new hose- now the left side would go up pretty well, but the right side (the "slave") won't lift at all. I then decided to test each cylinder in isolation- I hooked up the tractor to each cylinder alone and both cylinders will lift just fine in that configuration. I took the supply line off the slave cylinder and activated the hydraulics- seems like a pretty pitiful flow, a quick quirt and then nothing for a second, then just a trickle. Bad hose between the two cylinders? Nope, same problem when I take the supply hose off the bottom of the master cylinder.

Then I thought there was something wrong/clogged inside the master cylinder. I dissassembled it, no obvious crud or debris, no rust or broken parts. I blew air through the exit crack around the push shaft, seems to come through to the exit port with no issue.

For the heck of it, I dissassembled the slave cylinder to have a look as well- nothing wrong that I can tell.

I then replaced the hose between the master and slave just to see if it made any difference- no luck.

It does seem like I have air trapped in my cylinders, but I just bled the lines and I got the slave to rise once veeeery slowly, but since then, I can't get the right side up more than a few inches, while the left side comes right up.

So basically, I have poor or intermittent hydraulic pressure at the point where the master cylinder supplies the slave. What am I missing here?

Thanks for any ideas!

Ben

 

[rrlund]

Pioneer couplers? If so, it's likely one of the male tips.

 

[farmerben]

Thanks for the response- I'd wondered about that, forgot to mention that in my first post- so I replaced them :roll: still no good. As a further note though, do you think it could just be my tractor with lower hydraulic pressure? I used a JD Diesel 4020 on this mower last year, the poor thing is still in the shop right now, though soon to be done! This year I'm using an IH 544, and an IH 806, both gas.

I cut about 12 acres of second cut alfalfa today with the rig, and interestingly, if I tied the lever for the remote forward to lift, I could go back manually and with just a little elbow grease assist it to the point where it would lift entirely. What in the world!?

I used the 544 hydraulics on the steering pivot with no issues today by the way.

I guess I'll know if when my 4020 is back all my issues go away.

Ben

 

[Paul swpa]

It would be interesting to what difference there is in the hydraulics specs between the three tractors - pressure and output flow. I know our 544 gas has pretty weak hydraulics compared to our other tractors. If I have it hooked to the JD7000 conservation 4 row corn planter, it can struggle to lift it especially when full of fertilizer. I would have thought the 806 would have had plenty of power to lift your mower though. You have done a good job of trying to diagnose the problem. It will be interesting to hear what you you find is causing the problem. Paul

 

[caterpillar guy]

Unless changed relief valve the 806 is in the 1500 -2000 PSI your 4020 is closer to 2250 or just a tad more. I would guess there is either a bad coupler connection like RR said, or there is some kind of valve in between the cylinders that has a problem. I'm guessing a coupler. IF you have those older Deere style couplers on the hoses and put on a set of adapters for the Pioneer style coupler it could be in your adapters. Try putting the coupler tips for the tractor on the hoses and it may work. I would also switch the lever direction to pull back to lift and forward to drop especially on the 806. This will help keep you from going to the float position when trying to lift it. Less confusing that way and helpers may not know this and push lever to far.

 

[RodinNS]

I'd tee a gauge in the line at the cylinder and see what is there for pressure. My guess would be a bad coupler tip at this point
given what you've looked at.
I'd also try to determine if the lift linkages on the mower are all moving freely? Is something seized up?

Rod

 

[paul]

Im guessing the lower hyd pressure in the red tractors.

 

[farmerben]

I appreciate all the replies! The couplers I have on the unit are pioneer right now (I took off my JD ends since my 4020 was out of commission for a while). I did use pioneer ends that I knew were working on another cylinder. So I'm pretty sure my end (there's only one for the lift) is good. I am also sure there is no valve between the master and slave cylinder, just the "pass through" orifice on the end of the master cylinder where oil goes past the push shaft into the outflow port.

I like the pressure test idea- I've never done that before, but it sounds pretty simple.

I'm pretty sure the lift linkages are moving well because when I give a little manual "boost" to the bar on the front of the mower, it lifts right up once it's a few inches off the end stops.

This is sounding like more of a red tractor problem- I guess we'll know as soon as my 4020 is back (supposedly by the end of this week).

Of course today I had a 1/4 inch of rain on my hay that WASN'T forecast



I'll keep ya'll posted!

Ben

 

[farmerben]

Hi everybody, I just wanted to finish this topic with an update. It was indeed a red vs green hydraulic pressure issue compounded by a lot of gunk in one of the cylinders. I cleaned everything up, and funny enough, as long as I was moving along at a pretty good clip (i.e. bouncy- darned gophers) the mower would lift pretty well. The hydraulic springs on the mower were enough to give some lift providing it was already on the up bounce- ha ha. I finally have my 4020 back, and there is definitely more pressure there.

Thanks so much everyone who responded- this forum is a life saver!

Gratefully,
Ben