New to me Franken-Fergie

[Mad Farmer]

You might find things of interest in this thread: https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/threads/z-134-rocker-arm-lubrication.1696607/

Modern replacement valves do not use caps.

The pan is easy to remove, cleaning inside with diesel is a fine idea.

I was following/replied to that thread, and learned a bunch about Fergy rockers/valves there.

How do the rockers that were designed for valves with caps do without replacement caps? I'll be pulling the shaft apart next few days to see if it's useable for a while or if I'll be hunting a good used assy. If anyone has a good assy/shaft/rockers let me know.

I see the site here has a rocker arm bushing set, the bushings need to be fitted to the shaft. The shop manual mentions that the rocker tip surfaces that contact the valves can be reground by a machine shop. Has anyone here done/had done either of this work?

Presently I'm just trying to get the Fergy runable for use this year, I really need it. I'm working outside so trying to avoid too much taking apart. Not sure if I want to tackle taking off the pan and associated clean up of grunge (just the outside) to do so. That would let me do a proper cleanup inside. Would have to hunt down gaskets, or maybe just buy a whole gasket/seal kit.

I'll post some more pictures when I get the rocker assy taken apart

 

[pomester]

I was following/replied to that thread, and learned a bunch about Fergy rockers/valves there.

How do the rockers that were designed for valves with caps do without replacement caps? I'll be pulling the shaft apart next few days to see if it's useable for a while or if I'll be hunting a good used assy. If anyone has a good assy/shaft/rockers let me know.

I see the site here has a rocker arm bushing set, the bushings need to be fitted to the shaft. The shop manual mentions that the rocker tip surfaces that contact the valves can be reground by a machine shop. Has anyone here done/had done either of this work?

Presently I'm just trying to get the Fergy runable for use this year, I really need it. I'm working outside so trying to avoid too much taking apart. Not sure if I want to tackle taking off the pan and associated clean up of grunge (just the outside) to do so. That would let me do a proper cleanup inside. Would have to hunt down gaskets, or maybe just buy a whole gasket/seal kit.

I'll post some more pictures when I get the rocker assy taken apart

The shaft/rockers seem to operate just fine with new valves w/no caps. Geometry is near the same.

I would guess that if your shaft's bushings are worn significantly, you'll find the shaft itself worn. I see our host sells complete new shafts, dunno about quality, I've seen new shafts derided here, but without explanation as to what was substandard.

Ebay has two-three used shafts, none 'cheap', and no guarantee they are any better than what you have.

My experience is that even worn shafts with issues work fine. As nasty as the issues were in the linked thread, the shafts I worked with adjusted and operated quietly, so I wouldn't be overly critical of some sloppy bushings in the short term. Unless there is something grievous, put it back together, adjust, and it'll run fine for the season while you source something better.

 

[Mad Farmer]

The shaft/rockers seem to operate just fine with new valves w/no caps. Geometry is near the same.

I would guess that if your shaft's bushings are worn significantly, you'll find the shaft itself worn. I see our host sells complete new shafts, dunno about quality, I've seen new shafts derided here, but without explanation as to what was substandard.

Ebay has two-three used shafts, none 'cheap', and no guarantee they are any better than what you have.

My experience is that even worn shafts with issues work fine. As nasty as the issues were in the linked thread, the shafts I worked with adjusted and operated quietly, so I wouldn't be overly critical of some sloppy bushings in the short term. Unless there is something grievous, put it back together, adjust, and it'll run fine for the season while you source something better.

Thanks for the advice! I was concerned for the two valves without caps that have the centers of the tips hollowed out. Some of the caps have some surface wear. I assume those can be polished up on some plate glass and fine wet/dry paper or crocus cloth.

I need to get the shaft apart to see the good , the bad, and the ugly. I have to burn brush today.

There is a big tractor junkyard nearby in NY state that has used shaft assys and TO-Fergy parts tractors. My cousin needs parts for his NAA so we might make a trip to see what they have. At least then I /we can look parts over .

Concerning taking off oil pan for better clean up of insides. Besides the pan gasket is there any other sealing areas to worry about? I found pan gaskets, wondering if better to spend more for a whole set w/seals?.

 

[Mad Farmer]

I got to take some of the shaft apart, just the two end rockers, their springs and the end caps.

Shafts and the rocker bushings are shiny/worn, and show considerable wear on the bottom side that takes the pressure when the valve opens. The oil groove pattern of the bushings are worn into the shaft. The tops of both show no wear and have some varnish on them. They are worn into each other an the rockers don't spin totally free on the shafts. They do pivot free a small amount which corresponds to the movement of the valves opening/shutting.

Other wear noted is the springs wearing into one of the bronze rocker bushings on the two of the long springs between towers #1 and 2, and #3 and 4. They are still holding the rockers tight against the towers, so I let sleeping dogs lie. I will do a quick measurement on the shaft and these bushings later.

I'm sure they are both worn out of spec, the oil groove pattern of the bushings are wore into the contact areas of the shaft, you can feel a ridge of the oil groove pattern on the shaft. Pictures are not great with the dumb phone.



Other reason I did not take the rest of the shaft assy apart is these towers seem to be a press fit onto the shaft (mentioned in shop manual), and just from the feel I expect the same wear on the shaft and remaining rocker bushings.

I'm hunting down used shaft assys at present and the Fergy will go back together with these parts for a while so I can get some work done. I need to finish cleaning out the engine too.

 

[Richard JH.]

M-F,
When I took my rocker cover off I saw there were no caps on the valves.
Seems to have been that was a good while by the wear.
Don't knowif this is right or wrong, but the vale tops were still good, the only wear on rocker arms.

Question;

How much oil should I be seeing coming from the oles in the rocker arms whentractor is running?

It just weeps out, but takes some time to appear at all of them.
No oil seems to get from the rocker arm to the valves. Is something wrong, or is it that I hav eonly run it a few minutes and its not had time to warm up?
Plenty seems to get to the pushrod end.

Best,
R.

 

[Mad Farmer]

I'm still kind of confused with the caps/no caps issue. My IPL for the Continental engines shows some sort of caps for both, int and ex but different ones. On my TO30 the two ex valves without caps have an area in the center of the stem that appears to take a cap (post #39 ex #1 and 3). That is the stem tips are not soild. I'll have to look over the rest of the valves/caps, some still have the pin type retainers

On the TO engines oil comes up through the block into rear rocker support--->into rocker shaft--->out hole to rocker bushing. I'll have to look better to see push rod end oiling. Some adjusters (push rod end) have holes in the center, some don't. I don't see any oil holes on the rocker valve end. Oil may come up through the pushrods? Not sure about valve end of rocker/stems and valves themselves?



My shop manual does not have the TEA/Standard engine and description of oil system, but the IPL does have the parts.

The IPL shows a different head/engine for the TEA-20/Standard. No caps, two sizes/variations of ex valve, 80 and 85mm.

 

[pomester]

M-F,
When I took my rocker cover off I saw there were no caps on the valves.
Seems to have been that was a good while by the wear.
Don't knowif this is right or wrong, but the vale tops were still good, the only wear on rocker arms.

Question;

How much oil should I be seeing coming from the oles in the rocker arms whentractor is running?

It just weeps out, but takes some time to appear at all of them.
No oil seems to get from the rocker arm to the valves. Is something wrong, or is it that I hav eonly run it a few minutes and its not had time to warm up?
Plenty seems to get to the pushrod end.

Best,
R.

Oil to the rocker gallery comes up thru a hole in the camshaft. This hole kinda 'spurts' oil for a fraction of a second each rotation. So it takes a while to get there and fill the shaft and start coming out the various orifices. It's adequate for what it's called to do. There's a channel in the rocker arm which feeds oil to the pushrod. The valve end is splash oiled.