IH Super C engine help

[jaburford]

I need help diagnosing a problem with my 1950 Super C tractor engine. It appears that the cam shaft is no longer turning in sync with the crank shaft. When I turn over the engine with the starter, the valve push rods move some but then stop.
A few years ago the hydraulic pump froze and stripped the drive gear. Although the hydraulics was lost, the engine was, otherwise, running. The tractor was useless without hydraulics so it sat for a couple years. Recently I started the engine in order to move the tractor to a different location. It ran for 10 or 15 minutes but started running rough and quit. When I attempted to restart it backfired a couple times and then quit running. After checking gas and spark, I took off the valve cover and then learned the cam is not driving the push rods.
Is this repairable or is there likely damage to valves and/or pistons? How is the cam connected to the crank shaft? If it s repairable, what is the procedure?

 

[Mrfred54]

Sounds like you better remove the front timing cover. Remove oil pan, probably going
to find gear teeth in it.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one.

When the hydraulic pump gear failed, it damaged the cam gear. You immediately stopped using the tractor so you didn't run it long enough for the gears to fail completely. Tractors don't "heal" so a couple years later things picked up right where they left off...

 

[rustred]

time to remove radiator and get the timing cover off , then u will find your problem being a stripped cam gear. thats the weak point with
them old hydraulic's. is it repairable.. yes... do u want to spend the money on it...??? your call.

 

[Janicholson]

These engines do not crash, the valves do not extend far enough to hit the pistons. Replacing the timing gears will fix it. Jim

 

[jaburford]

(quoted from post at 09:41:20 07/21/23) time to remove radiator and get the timing cover off , then u will find your problem being a stripped cam gear. thats the weak point with
them old hydraulic's. is it repairable.. yes... do u want to spend the money on it...??? your call.

Got it, thanks.

 

[jaburford]

Thanks.

 

[jaburford]

Biggest concern is, how much damage did the gear debris do to the engine bearings? If I replace the cam gear and drain off all the old oil, what s the risk that some residual debris will damage bearings through out the engine. I ve heard that the cam gear is made of softer material, like fiberglass, so does that reduce the risk of bearing damage?

I don t want the expense of a total rebuild but, if I replace the cam gear and then find worse damage from the old gear debris, I just delayed a rebuild.

What do you think?

 

[SinkholeRoad]

Be prepared for the possibility that you will need to replace the other front gears as well, such as the crankshaft and governor gear. I had a similar issue, and the damaged gear teeth caused bad enough damage to the other gears that I had to change them all.

 

[rustred]

its not the gears that strip! its the key in the camshaft that gets sheared where the gear is pushed on. it a quick break and dont sit there
wearing making filings. plus its a good idea to remove the oil pan and clean out the sludge anyhow while at the job, then have a look see for
metal . plus u would be changing the oil filter also. and no the gears are not fiberglass.

 

[Smarten_up]

So now I'm glad my 'C' never had a hydraulic pump or water pump for that matter. Had thought I was missing out, LOL.

 

[jaburford]

(quoted from post at 06:45:30 07/22/23)
Be prepared for the possibility that you will need to replace the other front gears as well, such as the crankshaft and governor gear. I had a similar issue, and the damaged gear teeth caused bad enough damage to the other gears that I had to change them all.

Sounds right. Thanks

 

[dhermesc]

That or you snap a cam shaft - although the sometimes moving valves do indicate the keyway is the culprit.

 

[jaburford]

Had a local mechanic warn me the the gear debris may have damaged multiple bearings (maybe piston main bearings). I don t want to start replacing the cam gear and find I have bigger problems. What s the odds for real damage?

 

[Janicholson]

Pull one of the mains and one of the rod caps if no glittery particles, put them back (correctly). it there was rubbing, chafing and grinding involved with the failure, there may be contamination. If the broken parts are pretty well in chunks of tooth, or hub fragments, not likely. The metal will drop through the oil to the bottom of the pan if there was mostly chunks. An engine that fails over a 2 hour period is most likely to have fragmentation that floats in the oil. Jim

 

[jaburford]

Sounds about right.
I have a local mechanic who rebuilds farmal engines and then takes them to tractor pulls. He s interested in buying my tractor for that purpose. Seems like a good future for this engine. He ll tear it down, bore the block to the largest safe dimensions then rebuild for max compression/power.
Otherwise, I have to park it till I have time to check it out, probably after summer farm chores are done.

Thanks for the input.